1
00:00:05,430 --> 00:00:02,869
i am back to present the premiere of

2
00:00:07,110 --> 00:00:05,440
christine simmons morris talk from last

3
00:00:08,549 --> 00:00:07,120
year's education day

4
00:00:10,150 --> 00:00:08,559
um

5
00:00:11,990 --> 00:00:10,160
christine will not be able to join us

6
00:00:13,669 --> 00:00:12,000
today for q a instead we're going to

7
00:00:15,350 --> 00:00:13,679
have something called a reverse q a

8
00:00:16,950 --> 00:00:15,360
christina's prepared a slide of

9
00:00:19,349 --> 00:00:16,960
questions that we're going to invite you

10
00:00:21,269 --> 00:00:19,359
to go to the social lounge to discuss

11
00:00:22,790 --> 00:00:21,279
among yourselves and so please

12
00:00:23,830 --> 00:00:22,800
do reserve your questions for this

13
00:00:27,509 --> 00:00:23,840
session

14
00:00:29,269 --> 00:00:27,519
now professor christine simmons-moore

15
00:00:32,069 --> 00:00:29,279
is in the psychology department at the

16
00:00:34,229 --> 00:00:32,079
university of west georgia her her

17
00:00:36,310 --> 00:00:34,239
research interests include the study of

18
00:00:38,069 --> 00:00:36,320
personality types who are prone to

19
00:00:40,709 --> 00:00:38,079
subjective anomalous and paranormal

20
00:00:43,190 --> 00:00:40,719
experiences and beliefs transpersonal

21
00:00:45,990 --> 00:00:43,200
experiences the overlaps between

22
00:00:48,389 --> 00:00:46,000
parapsychology and clinical psychology

23
00:00:50,549 --> 00:00:48,399
cognitive and neurobiological correlates

24
00:00:53,110 --> 00:00:50,559
of paranormal experiences

25
00:00:55,029 --> 00:00:53,120
synesthesia and anomalous experiences

26
00:00:57,029 --> 00:00:55,039
and how sleep-related and other altered

27
00:01:00,389 --> 00:00:57,039
states of consciousness relate to

28
00:01:02,869 --> 00:01:00,399
subjective anomalous experiences she is

29
00:01:05,590 --> 00:01:02,879
editor of the book exceptional

30
00:01:07,750 --> 00:01:05,600
experience and health essays on mind

31
00:01:09,750 --> 00:01:07,760
body and human potential

32
00:01:12,070 --> 00:01:09,760
she is a co-author of a textbook on

33
00:01:14,469 --> 00:01:12,080
anomalistic psychology and she is

34
00:01:17,429 --> 00:01:14,479
working on a book about the psychology

35
00:01:20,710 --> 00:01:17,439
and parapsychology of ghosts

36
00:01:22,310 --> 00:01:20,720
and here is christine's talk

37
00:01:25,429 --> 00:01:22,320
today and

38
00:01:26,469 --> 00:01:25,439
talk to you a little bit about

39
00:01:29,270 --> 00:01:26,479
research

40
00:01:32,149 --> 00:01:29,280
and discoveries into extra sensory

41
00:01:34,550 --> 00:01:32,159
perception and how they can be informed

42
00:01:36,149 --> 00:01:34,560
actually by psychology

43
00:01:38,710 --> 00:01:36,159
because i see parapsychology and

44
00:01:41,030 --> 00:01:38,720
psychology as being intimately connected

45
00:01:42,950 --> 00:01:41,040
and they have a lot to say to each other

46
00:01:44,310 --> 00:01:42,960
so as john pointed out a lot of my own

47
00:01:47,910 --> 00:01:44,320
research has

48
00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:47,920
focused on the psychology of paranormal

49
00:01:51,910 --> 00:01:50,320
experiences and actually i started out

50
00:01:53,670 --> 00:01:51,920
by researching

51
00:01:56,550 --> 00:01:53,680
extra sensory perception when i did my

52
00:01:57,749 --> 00:01:56,560
phd which was actually in the uk under

53
00:02:00,310 --> 00:01:57,759
chris rowe

54
00:02:03,109 --> 00:02:00,320
um at the university of northampton

55
00:02:04,870 --> 00:02:03,119
so um yeah i find it fascinating and i'm

56
00:02:06,789 --> 00:02:04,880
going to share a little bit about

57
00:02:09,830 --> 00:02:06,799
what that is first of all and a little

58
00:02:12,229 --> 00:02:09,840
bit about the correlates of experiences

59
00:02:16,070 --> 00:02:12,239
and then a little bit more about what we

60
00:02:18,390 --> 00:02:16,080
have learned in parapsychology about

61
00:02:19,670 --> 00:02:18,400
actual extra sensory perception like

62
00:02:22,790 --> 00:02:19,680
does it happen

63
00:02:24,630 --> 00:02:22,800
happen to

64
00:02:26,710 --> 00:02:24,640
um so hopefully this will give you a

65
00:02:29,589 --> 00:02:26,720
nice overview and yes as john pointed

66
00:02:31,430 --> 00:02:29,599
out you can study parapsychology at uwg

67
00:02:34,070 --> 00:02:31,440
um so i'll give a bit of a nudge to that

68
00:02:36,710 --> 00:02:34,080
and actually i see um one of our phd

69
00:02:38,630 --> 00:02:36,720
students is in this room today so hello

70
00:02:42,229 --> 00:02:38,640
nancy nancy is actually doing her phd

71
00:02:44,790 --> 00:02:42,239
work on um a parapsychological topic so

72
00:02:46,949 --> 00:02:44,800
um yeah she's here she can give you a

73
00:02:48,150 --> 00:02:46,959
first person insight into what that's

74
00:02:53,830 --> 00:02:48,160
like

75
00:02:57,589 --> 00:02:55,509
all right my computer's frozen so hold

76
00:02:59,350 --> 00:02:57,599
on one second

77
00:03:00,149 --> 00:02:59,360
technical issues

78
00:03:01,830 --> 00:03:00,159
uh

79
00:03:05,110 --> 00:03:01,840
christine do you wanna

80
00:03:07,430 --> 00:03:05,120
it's working it's just slow i don't know

81
00:03:10,869 --> 00:03:07,440
we'll just have to let it do its thing

82
00:03:13,030 --> 00:03:10,879
it's probably something to do with pk

83
00:03:14,949 --> 00:03:13,040
all right so um annalisa gave a really

84
00:03:18,630 --> 00:03:14,959
good overview of parapsychology and she

85
00:03:20,470 --> 00:03:18,640
included um a nice intro into research

86
00:03:22,949 --> 00:03:20,480
approaches into extra sensory perception

87
00:03:25,750 --> 00:03:22,959
but i'm going to go back and

88
00:03:27,270 --> 00:03:25,760
talk about what this is again um just to

89
00:03:29,110 --> 00:03:27,280
make sure everybody's clear about what

90
00:03:30,390 --> 00:03:29,120
we're talking about and maybe you'll

91
00:03:32,710 --> 00:03:30,400
realize you've had one of these

92
00:03:34,949 --> 00:03:32,720
experiences yourself because even if

93
00:03:36,710 --> 00:03:34,959
you're skeptical um it's often the case

94
00:03:38,710 --> 00:03:36,720
that you or a family member has had

95
00:03:41,509 --> 00:03:38,720
something like this happen to them

96
00:03:42,789 --> 00:03:41,519
so we're talking about experiences that

97
00:03:44,149 --> 00:03:42,799
seem to be

98
00:03:46,949 --> 00:03:44,159
um

99
00:03:48,070 --> 00:03:46,959
involving information access that

100
00:03:50,470 --> 00:03:48,080
shouldn't

101
00:03:51,830 --> 00:03:50,480
happen so basically information seems to

102
00:03:54,149 --> 00:03:51,840
be acquired without the use of the

103
00:03:56,710 --> 00:03:54,159
normal sensors and this includes what's

104
00:03:58,550 --> 00:03:56,720
known as telepathy and telesthesia i'll

105
00:04:01,270 --> 00:03:58,560
talk about that in a minute precognition

106
00:04:03,750 --> 00:04:01,280
clairvoyance and retrocognition

107
00:04:05,750 --> 00:04:03,760
um so telepathy is where people have

108
00:04:09,190 --> 00:04:05,760
awareness of what another person is

109
00:04:11,030 --> 00:04:09,200
thinking or feeling and it can sometimes

110
00:04:13,509 --> 00:04:11,040
be very embodied

111
00:04:14,869 --> 00:04:13,519
so this is particularly noted in twin

112
00:04:16,310 --> 00:04:14,879
experiences for example and that's

113
00:04:18,550 --> 00:04:16,320
actually been studied in terms of

114
00:04:19,749 --> 00:04:18,560
subjective experiences and inside

115
00:04:21,270 --> 00:04:19,759
performance

116
00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:21,280
in sweden

117
00:04:26,710 --> 00:04:23,440
um so this is the idea that sometimes

118
00:04:28,870 --> 00:04:26,720
twins can have embodied experiences so

119
00:04:31,189 --> 00:04:28,880
they might have a feeling of pain in

120
00:04:33,270 --> 00:04:31,199
their body that seems to relate to the

121
00:04:36,070 --> 00:04:33,280
pain that their twin is going through at

122
00:04:37,189 --> 00:04:36,080
a distant location so that's fascinating

123
00:04:38,950 --> 00:04:37,199
and that's something we'll come back to

124
00:04:41,830 --> 00:04:38,960
later the idea of the body being really

125
00:04:43,270 --> 00:04:41,840
really important in esp so it can be

126
00:04:44,390 --> 00:04:43,280
mental but it can also be very very

127
00:04:46,870 --> 00:04:44,400
physical

128
00:04:49,030 --> 00:04:46,880
precognition as depicted on the slide

129
00:04:51,510 --> 00:04:49,040
professor trelawny any harry potter fans

130
00:04:53,909 --> 00:04:51,520
here will recognize her she is gazing

131
00:04:55,510 --> 00:04:53,919
into a crystal ball um in the movies

132
00:04:57,110 --> 00:04:55,520
you'll see her also looking into tea

133
00:04:58,070 --> 00:04:57,120
leaves and divining aspects of the

134
00:04:59,270 --> 00:04:58,080
future

135
00:05:01,029 --> 00:04:59,280
so any

136
00:05:03,909 --> 00:05:01,039
experience where people have access the

137
00:05:06,150 --> 00:05:03,919
future is known as precognition

138
00:05:08,150 --> 00:05:06,160
and this often happens in the dream

139
00:05:09,189 --> 00:05:08,160
state that can also happen in the waking

140
00:05:11,510 --> 00:05:09,199
state

141
00:05:13,830 --> 00:05:11,520
clairvoyance is basically clear seeing

142
00:05:15,990 --> 00:05:13,840
but it can also be um clear audience

143
00:05:17,670 --> 00:05:16,000
where people might hear information

144
00:05:19,749 --> 00:05:17,680
or clairsentience where they might feel

145
00:05:22,629 --> 00:05:19,759
information but basically information is

146
00:05:24,950 --> 00:05:22,639
happening at a distance so for example

147
00:05:27,270 --> 00:05:24,960
it might be the case that um somebody

148
00:05:28,390 --> 00:05:27,280
like eddie casey who's on the slide was

149
00:05:30,550 --> 00:05:28,400
able to

150
00:05:33,189 --> 00:05:30,560
have direct awareness of something that

151
00:05:33,990 --> 00:05:33,199
was going on at a distance so i think he

152
00:05:35,510 --> 00:05:34,000
was

153
00:05:36,950 --> 00:05:35,520
reported to be able to read a

154
00:05:38,390 --> 00:05:36,960
thermometer

155
00:05:40,710 --> 00:05:38,400
of a person who is in a different

156
00:05:43,909 --> 00:05:40,720
location and that is an example of a

157
00:05:45,590 --> 00:05:43,919
clairvoyant experience so of course we

158
00:05:48,870 --> 00:05:45,600
don't know whether these experiences

159
00:05:50,629 --> 00:05:48,880
actually suggest an actual sigh because

160
00:05:52,230 --> 00:05:50,639
they're subjective experiences but

161
00:05:55,110 --> 00:05:52,240
they're very very interesting and they

162
00:05:57,189 --> 00:05:55,120
give us clues really with regard to what

163
00:05:58,629 --> 00:05:57,199
might actually be going on in terms of

164
00:05:59,909 --> 00:05:58,639
actual esp

165
00:06:01,430 --> 00:05:59,919
there's another one on the slide here

166
00:06:03,830 --> 00:06:01,440
retro cognition that is very very

167
00:06:06,870 --> 00:06:03,840
neglected in the research but it's

168
00:06:09,830 --> 00:06:06,880
interesting um this is where people have

169
00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:09,840
apparent experiences of the past and so

170
00:06:13,990 --> 00:06:11,520
the example i often use here is where

171
00:06:15,350 --> 00:06:14,000
people might go to a battlefield um

172
00:06:17,110 --> 00:06:15,360
that's you know currently not a

173
00:06:20,390 --> 00:06:17,120
battlefield so i've been to the

174
00:06:22,070 --> 00:06:20,400
battlefields in belgium and france

175
00:06:24,150 --> 00:06:22,080
they're very very peaceful areas but

176
00:06:27,990 --> 00:06:24,160
some people have reported things like

177
00:06:29,510 --> 00:06:28,000
flashes um of the past that seem to be

178
00:06:31,430 --> 00:06:29,520
related to things that actually happened

179
00:06:34,550 --> 00:06:31,440
in the past so that's awareness of

180
00:06:35,990 --> 00:06:34,560
information um from the past that's

181
00:06:38,230 --> 00:06:36,000
hardest to test in the lab but it's

182
00:06:39,510 --> 00:06:38,240
still a very interesting and valid

183
00:06:40,950 --> 00:06:39,520
experience

184
00:06:43,189 --> 00:06:40,960
so i'm going to try and go forward again

185
00:06:44,469 --> 00:06:43,199
okay it's working now excellent

186
00:06:48,790 --> 00:06:44,479
um so

187
00:06:50,950 --> 00:06:48,800
why do we study these experiences um

188
00:06:52,309 --> 00:06:50,960
i have to justify my existence a lot of

189
00:06:54,710 --> 00:06:52,319
the time

190
00:06:56,790 --> 00:06:54,720
but this is what i say i say these

191
00:06:59,189 --> 00:06:56,800
experiences are

192
00:07:01,430 --> 00:06:59,199
something that's fairly common um you

193
00:07:03,029 --> 00:07:01,440
know psychologists study schizophrenia

194
00:07:04,469 --> 00:07:03,039
for example that happens in one percent

195
00:07:06,309 --> 00:07:04,479
of the population

196
00:07:08,150 --> 00:07:06,319
now subjective paranormal experiences

197
00:07:10,150 --> 00:07:08,160
happen in many more members of the

198
00:07:12,230 --> 00:07:10,160
population and when we're talking about

199
00:07:14,390 --> 00:07:12,240
extra sensory experiences this is

200
00:07:16,629 --> 00:07:14,400
actually one of the most common types of

201
00:07:18,070 --> 00:07:16,639
paranormal phenomena from paranormal

202
00:07:21,189 --> 00:07:18,080
experience i should say

203
00:07:22,790 --> 00:07:21,199
um so a study by john palmer found about

204
00:07:25,670 --> 00:07:22,800
39

205
00:07:28,390 --> 00:07:25,680
of a sample general population sample

206
00:07:30,870 --> 00:07:28,400
reported having had um a psychic

207
00:07:34,070 --> 00:07:30,880
experience so this is quite high this is

208
00:07:35,909 --> 00:07:34,080
a significant subset of the population

209
00:07:37,749 --> 00:07:35,919
these experiences are reported

210
00:07:40,150 --> 00:07:37,759
throughout history as well

211
00:07:41,510 --> 00:07:40,160
and appear in different cultures so even

212
00:07:43,189 --> 00:07:41,520
if they're sort of packaged up

213
00:07:45,270 --> 00:07:43,199
differently which

214
00:07:47,909 --> 00:07:45,280
they really are you see

215
00:07:49,189 --> 00:07:47,919
um very similar core elements to

216
00:07:50,950 --> 00:07:49,199
experiences but they might be sort of

217
00:07:53,189 --> 00:07:50,960
understood differently

218
00:07:55,749 --> 00:07:53,199
and embraced differently actually so

219
00:07:57,909 --> 00:07:55,759
particularly us versus brazil

220
00:08:00,230 --> 00:07:57,919
brazil you've got lots of embracing of

221
00:08:02,710 --> 00:08:00,240
these experiences whereas in america not

222
00:08:04,790 --> 00:08:02,720
as much um anyway they're still there

223
00:08:07,270 --> 00:08:04,800
they're very very very much part of the

224
00:08:09,110 --> 00:08:07,280
human experience and

225
00:08:12,469 --> 00:08:09,120
we have to study them it's really really

226
00:08:14,550 --> 00:08:12,479
important um as psychologists and

227
00:08:17,110 --> 00:08:14,560
parasitologists really to know

228
00:08:19,430 --> 00:08:17,120
what might be going on um so i've got a

229
00:08:21,510 --> 00:08:19,440
quote from caroline watt here who is the

230
00:08:23,830 --> 00:08:21,520
curser chair of parapsychology in

231
00:08:26,550 --> 00:08:23,840
edinburgh that's like the main center

232
00:08:28,390 --> 00:08:26,560
for parapsychology i suppose in the uk

233
00:08:30,629 --> 00:08:28,400
and she said even if it turns out that

234
00:08:32,709 --> 00:08:30,639
paranormal phenomena can be explained by

235
00:08:34,630 --> 00:08:32,719
normal mechanisms because many people

236
00:08:36,870 --> 00:08:34,640
have experiences which they interpret as

237
00:08:39,110 --> 00:08:36,880
paranormal scientists have a

238
00:08:41,589 --> 00:08:39,120
responsibility to understand them and i

239
00:08:43,509 --> 00:08:41,599
absolutely agree with that

240
00:08:45,829 --> 00:08:43,519
but they also have something to tell us

241
00:08:48,790 --> 00:08:45,839
about consciousness itself so if these

242
00:08:50,630 --> 00:08:48,800
experiences are genuine

243
00:08:52,230 --> 00:08:50,640
this really suggests that something else

244
00:08:54,870 --> 00:08:52,240
might be going on in terms of how we

245
00:08:57,110 --> 00:08:54,880
understand how the mind works if minds

246
00:08:59,110 --> 00:08:57,120
can actually access information that

247
00:09:01,750 --> 00:08:59,120
other people are experiencing if minds

248
00:09:03,910 --> 00:09:01,760
can access information at a distance and

249
00:09:06,470 --> 00:09:03,920
if minds can actually

250
00:09:07,990 --> 00:09:06,480
access future or past information that's

251
00:09:11,350 --> 00:09:08,000
really really interesting and we need to

252
00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:14,470
so um when do these experiences happen

253
00:09:18,470 --> 00:09:16,399
and for whom

254
00:09:20,389 --> 00:09:18,480
so a lot of my research as john pointed

255
00:09:22,389 --> 00:09:20,399
out is focused on

256
00:09:23,670 --> 00:09:22,399
psychology um i'm really interested in

257
00:09:24,949 --> 00:09:23,680
the correlates of experiences in

258
00:09:26,070 --> 00:09:24,959
particular

259
00:09:28,550 --> 00:09:26,080
and they're talking a lot about that

260
00:09:30,630 --> 00:09:28,560
today um so these experiences tend to

261
00:09:33,509 --> 00:09:30,640
have some commonalities

262
00:09:34,710 --> 00:09:33,519
and they tend to occur um in altered

263
00:09:36,630 --> 00:09:34,720
states of consciousness so again we're

264
00:09:38,790 --> 00:09:36,640
talking about subjective experiences now

265
00:09:40,550 --> 00:09:38,800
but you'll recognize some overlap with

266
00:09:43,190 --> 00:09:40,560
actual side performance when i talk

267
00:09:45,590 --> 00:09:43,200
about that a little bit later as well

268
00:09:48,550 --> 00:09:45,600
so yes they can happen spontaneously or

269
00:09:50,550 --> 00:09:48,560
they can happen intentionally

270
00:09:51,590 --> 00:09:50,560
in terms of spontaneous experiences they

271
00:09:53,350 --> 00:09:51,600
really do

272
00:09:55,509 --> 00:09:53,360
um tend to occur when people are in

273
00:09:57,750 --> 00:09:55,519
these liminal states so in between

274
00:10:00,550 --> 00:09:57,760
states of consciousness

275
00:10:02,949 --> 00:10:00,560
and i've used a term from the spr

276
00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:02,959
phantasms of the living borderland the

277
00:10:06,230 --> 00:10:04,880
borderlands states between wake points

278
00:10:07,990 --> 00:10:06,240
and sleep

279
00:10:11,110 --> 00:10:08,000
and also during dreams these are really

280
00:10:12,310 --> 00:10:11,120
rich times for extra sensory experiences

281
00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:12,320
incidentally there are also really

282
00:10:15,350 --> 00:10:14,160
common times for other

283
00:10:17,509 --> 00:10:15,360
types of

284
00:10:19,190 --> 00:10:17,519
paranormal phenomena as well

285
00:10:21,509 --> 00:10:19,200
they happen often between people who

286
00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:21,519
have a close emotional bond

287
00:10:25,670 --> 00:10:23,440
and actually there is some research not

288
00:10:28,150 --> 00:10:25,680
enough actually but some research that

289
00:10:29,750 --> 00:10:28,160
finds that these experiences tend to run

290
00:10:31,509 --> 00:10:29,760
in families but if you talk to people

291
00:10:35,269 --> 00:10:31,519
about this this is a thing

292
00:10:37,750 --> 00:10:35,279
um they often occur in association with

293
00:10:39,509 --> 00:10:37,760
meaningful and emotional events so

294
00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:39,519
um people will often report having

295
00:10:43,829 --> 00:10:41,760
awareness um that somebody might be

296
00:10:46,870 --> 00:10:43,839
about to die for example and then

297
00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:46,880
near-death experiences are very

298
00:10:50,550 --> 00:10:48,880
interesting for many reasons but people

299
00:10:52,949 --> 00:10:50,560
who have near-death experiences often

300
00:10:55,110 --> 00:10:52,959
come back and they will then have more

301
00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:55,120
extra sensory experiences as a result of

302
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:56,320
them

303
00:11:01,829 --> 00:10:59,200
and then tragic experiences are

304
00:11:03,670 --> 00:11:01,839
often reported in pre-cognition so again

305
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:03,680
these are experiences that people have

306
00:11:07,269 --> 00:11:05,440
of the future

307
00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:07,279
so many experiences happen between those

308
00:11:12,389 --> 00:11:09,279
who are biologically related and that's

309
00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:12,399
also borne out in actual esp experiments

310
00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:13,600
too

311
00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:15,760
and there is some

312
00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:18,240
interesting research um that finds that

313
00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:20,000
certain people tend to report these

314
00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:22,640
experiences more than others and these

315
00:11:29,269 --> 00:11:26,320
people um i refer to as anomaly prone

316
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:29,279
personality types

317
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:30,720
um so what i've talked about other

318
00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:32,959
people have talked about is this idea of

319
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:34,959
interactions between

320
00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:35,760
um

321
00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:37,839
sort of trait and state anomaly

322
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:39,279
proneness

323
00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:42,880
so essentially you've got people who um

324
00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:44,720
are sort of wired to be more

325
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:46,800
interconnected with themselves

326
00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:48,399
and more likely to be able to shift into

327
00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:50,560
different states of consciousness more

328
00:11:54,710 --> 00:11:52,000
likely to

329
00:11:57,110 --> 00:11:54,720
have more influence from the body into

330
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:57,120
their mind more awareness of unconscious

331
00:12:01,990 --> 00:11:59,920
usually unconscious aspects of reality

332
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:02,000
they're wired that way

333
00:12:05,269 --> 00:12:03,680
some people will

334
00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:05,279
not have many of these experiences in

335
00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:07,200
their lives but they might have them in

336
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:08,720
association with certain states of

337
00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:10,959
consciousness and then you can also look

338
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:12,800
at these things together so the idea

339
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:14,240
that trait and normally prone people

340
00:12:18,069 --> 00:12:16,079
might be more likely to dip into

341
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:18,079
interesting states of consciousness so

342
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:19,839
when we talk about state anomaly

343
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:21,040
proneness

344
00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:23,120
i'm i'm really talking about states of

345
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:25,680
consciousness that are um

346
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:28,079
liminal you're in between um you've got

347
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:29,920
more awareness of yourself you've got

348
00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:32,480
more access to your unconscious mind and

349
00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:35,680
potentially a wider um understanding of

350
00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:37,360
conscious unconsciousness i should say

351
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:39,760
like a union idea i suppose

352
00:12:43,590 --> 00:12:41,920
um so liminal states

353
00:12:44,949 --> 00:12:43,600
are associated with falling asleep and

354
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:44,959
waking up from sleep which is called

355
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:47,360
hypnagogia and hypnopompia

356
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,959
sleep paralysis

357
00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:50,880
is a liminal state it's

358
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:52,240
interesting because you're sort of

359
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:54,240
asleep but awake at the same time

360
00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:55,839
lucid dreaming another really

361
00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:57,680
interesting state you're asleep but

362
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:59,279
awake at the same time

363
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:01,200
um and then other alter states of

364
00:13:05,190 --> 00:13:03,519
consciousness including meditation is

365
00:13:07,430 --> 00:13:05,200
more intentional

366
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:07,440
and psychedelic states so a lot of

367
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:09,440
subjective paranormal experiences

368
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:10,800
particularly of the extra sensory

369
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:12,959
variety have been reported in

370
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:14,800
psychedelic states and so david luke's

371
00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:17,600
work has really focused on that recently

372
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:21,200
um and then meditators um do seem to

373
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:23,839
report a lot of psychic experiences as

374
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:24,720
well

375
00:13:28,629 --> 00:13:26,399
um so and actually there's evidence that

376
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:28,639
the brain might change um to be more

377
00:13:33,750 --> 00:13:30,959
interconnected with itself when people

378
00:13:36,150 --> 00:13:33,760
are um more

379
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:36,160
consistent meditators i shall say

380
00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:37,519
but there is an interaction between

381
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:38,880
these things as well so a lot of the

382
00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:40,399
personality

383
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:42,800
variables on the left um these are new

384
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:44,480
words i know but i'm just going to say

385
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:47,120
it's about the picture in the middle um

386
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:50,000
so it's about the picture at the bottom

387
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:51,839
i suppose so people who are boundary

388
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:54,720
thin trans liminal who um score higher

389
00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:57,040
on measures of positive schizotype

390
00:14:02,870 --> 00:13:58,560
they're much more fluid everything's a

391
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:02,880
bit more connected um more creative um

392
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:05,760
more open um and so that's really sort

393
00:14:10,550 --> 00:14:07,680
of the best way to

394
00:14:14,069 --> 00:14:10,560
describe it an openness and a tendency

395
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,079
towards more associational thinking

396
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:16,800
um synesthesia is one of my pet projects

397
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:17,680
um

398
00:14:21,829 --> 00:14:19,440
and i've been doing a lot of my recent

399
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:21,839
research on that and that is um also

400
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:24,240
characterized by having a mind and brain

401
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,680
that's more interconnected but

402
00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:27,600
synesthetes also

403
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:28,880
have different

404
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:30,959
ways of experiencing the world that i

405
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:32,720
think can lend some clues into these

406
00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:34,560
experiences so they have

407
00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:36,720
um colors

408
00:14:41,189 --> 00:14:39,360
for example in addition to

409
00:14:43,509 --> 00:14:41,199
just seeing a letter on a page they have

410
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:43,519
an extra way of seeing the world so

411
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:45,600
again it's about connection connectivity

412
00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:47,839
which is um the theme of this conference

413
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:51,120
so connectivity is key to extra sensory

414
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:55,990
um i just wanted to show you this too

415
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:56,959
because i think this is really

416
00:15:01,509 --> 00:14:59,440
interesting um and this is going back to

417
00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:01,519
loisa ryan's work so i know this is

418
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:04,240
co-sponsored by the rhine so loisa ryan

419
00:15:08,069 --> 00:15:05,920
was j.b ryan's wife and she was really

420
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:08,079
interested in experiences and the

421
00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:10,480
patterns and experiences and what she

422
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:14,000
noticed was interesting um patterns with

423
00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:15,519
the state of consciousness and the type

424
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:18,720
of esp and also time um so remember we

425
00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:21,760
talked about um esp happening in real

426
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:23,760
time in the future but also the past

427
00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:25,920
here she's just got a comparison between

428
00:15:30,790 --> 00:15:29,040
um precognition and real-time esp

429
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:30,800
but you've got different types of esp

430
00:15:35,749 --> 00:15:33,040
happening too so some people just get a

431
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:35,759
gut feeling um which is the intuitive

432
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:37,759
and that's associated more with the with

433
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:41,040
the waking state and real time psi

434
00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:42,240
impressions

435
00:15:48,069 --> 00:15:44,800
hallucinatory esp is where the esp

436
00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:48,079
experiences seem to mimic your senses

437
00:15:51,910 --> 00:15:50,000
and that happens more in real time but

438
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:51,920
also in the waking state

439
00:15:56,629 --> 00:15:54,720
um realistic dreams tend to be

440
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:56,639
pre-cognitive which is really

441
00:15:59,269 --> 00:15:58,000
interesting as if things are sort of

442
00:16:01,269 --> 00:15:59,279
playing out

443
00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:01,279
um as they will play out in the future

444
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:02,560
at least in terms of subjective

445
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:06,240
experiences so 60 of those in her study

446
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:09,040
were pre-cognitive and then unrealistic

447
00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:11,360
dreams are pretty similar but slightly

448
00:16:14,230 --> 00:16:12,800
more in real time that's where you've

449
00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:14,240
got sort of metaphors happening in

450
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:15,279
dreams

451
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:16,480
so i just think that's really

452
00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:18,000
interesting and it's very very

453
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:19,600
understudied and i think we need to go

454
00:16:22,470 --> 00:16:20,880
back to

455
00:16:26,550 --> 00:16:22,480
those kind of patternings to understand

456
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:29,189
all right so before we dive into some er

457
00:16:34,389 --> 00:16:32,560
actual parapsychological findings um

458
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:34,399
there are some normal explanations we

459
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:36,240
need to think about and this is heart

460
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:38,160
and parcel of parapsychology honestly

461
00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:40,560
it's really important to

462
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:43,440
know what looks like psy but isn't and

463
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:45,600
this is a bob morris quote he was a

464
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:48,320
professor of parapsychology and very

465
00:16:52,629 --> 00:16:50,160
influential on my own journey into

466
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:52,639
parapsychology um so really important to

467
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:54,399
know what looks like cyber isn't and to

468
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:56,079
be able to try and rule that out or be

469
00:16:59,350 --> 00:16:57,279
aware of that

470
00:17:01,269 --> 00:16:59,360
or that you know sometimes

471
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:01,279
parapsychological experiences are a bit

472
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:03,120
of both they might be a little bit of

473
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:04,640
normal and a bit of paranormal or

474
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,039
sometimes they might be just all normal

475
00:17:11,669 --> 00:17:08,880
um and so it's really important to do

476
00:17:13,909 --> 00:17:11,679
some experiments to work out um you know

477
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:13,919
what might really be going on

478
00:17:17,909 --> 00:17:15,919
but anyway so just uh

479
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:17,919
to wet your appetite there does seem to

480
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:20,559
be evidence that um people who are

481
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:23,520
anomaly prone um are sometimes more able

482
00:17:30,470 --> 00:17:25,120
to

483
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:30,480
um

484
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:32,400
information that's actually present

485
00:17:36,310 --> 00:17:35,039
um and then it's misperceived as esp and

486
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:36,320
so we found

487
00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:37,679
some evidence of that in our own

488
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:40,160
research with synesthesia

489
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:41,039
um

490
00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:42,640
meaning making

491
00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:45,919
there is a tendency to see shapes and

492
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:48,320
causality in randomness so

493
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:50,240
um one way to think about this in

494
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:52,000
everyday experience is

495
00:17:56,310 --> 00:17:54,400
i'm looking at clouds and i play this a

496
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:56,320
lot with my son and it's fun and it's

497
00:17:59,590 --> 00:17:58,160
about creativity too so you're looking

498
00:18:02,150 --> 00:17:59,600
at the shape the clouds and you're

499
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:02,160
trying to sort of um see patterns in the

500
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:03,120
clouds

501
00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:04,640
and people who are more likely to sort

502
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:06,640
of have more complicated

503
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:08,799
shapes and randomness that tendency does

504
00:18:12,789 --> 00:18:10,400
relate to

505
00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:12,799
paranormal experiences too

506
00:18:15,909 --> 00:18:14,480
and that's not to discount them i've

507
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:15,919
actually done some research to try and

508
00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:18,480
look at that tendency with the idea that

509
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:21,600
sometimes people will see will pick up

510
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:24,000
the psy information as well as being

511
00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:26,559
creative um as well as the idea that oh

512
00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:27,520
they're just

513
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:29,120
seeing things that aren't there i think

514
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:31,120
it's more complex than that

515
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:32,240
and also the idea that sometimes

516
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:34,480
skeptical people might miss

517
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:36,400
um a signal sometimes that's what i've

518
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:38,000
looked at too

519
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:40,400
um but there is a relationship there so

520
00:18:44,789 --> 00:18:42,480
people who are more likely to

521
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:44,799
see meaning will will be more likely to

522
00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:47,360
have esp experiences

523
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:49,520
there's actually interestingly um a

524
00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:52,400
greater tendency to perceive minds

525
00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:54,640
so human beings um

526
00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:57,200
part of being human to um have the

527
00:19:00,549 --> 00:18:58,880
understanding that other people have

528
00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:00,559
intentionality and they have thoughts

529
00:19:04,549 --> 00:19:01,840
and beliefs

530
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:04,559
um and so there's some evidence that um

531
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:05,919
believers

532
00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:08,880
and experiences uh will

533
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:11,600
see mines in more places and so that's

534
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:13,039
illustration on my slider i've got a

535
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:14,880
nice picture of a rock

536
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:17,600
um that's also apophenia or the type one

537
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:20,080
era but it's also that we see faces we

538
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:22,160
tend to see faces everywhere we we

539
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:23,280
perceive

540
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:26,240
that there are thoughts and intentions

541
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:28,559
whether or not sometimes

542
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:30,240
and there's also the idea that people

543
00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:33,360
might misattribute um

544
00:19:39,029 --> 00:19:36,160
information that's subliminal

545
00:19:41,669 --> 00:19:39,039
and happening outside of your focus of

546
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:41,679
attention as psychic information so

547
00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:43,760
we've got to try and look at those and

548
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:45,520
rule some of those things out in

549
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:47,200
experiments to sort of see what might

550
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:49,520
really be going on but again i like to

551
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:51,520
say well sometimes the site might hook

552
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:53,120
into some of these things

553
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:54,400
and actually

554
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:56,400
nicola holt and myself have looked at

555
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:58,559
the idea that psy

556
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:01,360
might work like the unattended stimulus

557
00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:03,360
and be filtered out of attention

558
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:04,240
um

559
00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:07,919
and jim carpenter's model of uh of psy

560
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:10,080
you know talks about psy's first sight

561
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:11,919
happening before subliminal perception

562
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:13,919
so i think the best way to move forward

563
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:16,400
is both and um but you have to be aware

564
00:20:20,950 --> 00:20:18,400
of the normal explanations um in order

565
00:20:23,909 --> 00:20:20,960
to really um make a good case i think

566
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:23,919
for what might really be going on

567
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:25,520
so i think anna lisa talked about some

568
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:28,240
of this um in her

569
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:31,679
really cool overview of parapsychology

570
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:34,240
but esp in particular is studied in

571
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:36,480
various ways so we we see research

572
00:20:42,470 --> 00:20:40,080
that's trying to prove that psi occurs

573
00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:42,480
um and so this is where researchers try

574
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:44,559
to rule out normal explanations using

575
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:47,600
probability and statistics

576
00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:50,640
we look at process-oriented research and

577
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:52,400
that is really where a lot of my own

578
00:20:57,029 --> 00:20:54,960
work has focused um so

579
00:21:00,870 --> 00:20:57,039
understanding how it works which factors

580
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:00,880
correlate with actual esp performance

581
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:02,480
does it work better when people are

582
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:06,240
relaxed versus very tense for example um

583
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:09,120
so what are the correlates of of psi psi

584
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:10,880
is an anomalous process of information

585
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:13,280
transfer so that's how parasitical just

586
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:15,280
approach things they will say okay there

587
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:17,200
might be anomaly we don't necessarily

588
00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:19,200
say it's something paranormal we say

589
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:20,720
it's an anomaly that needs to be

590
00:21:24,390 --> 00:21:22,000
understood and we try to sort of

591
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:24,400
replicate and replicate and then see if

592
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:26,640
consistent patterns come out and try and

593
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:28,640
theorize about what might be going on

594
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:31,280
there um but you can get a lot of clues

595
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:34,080
with regard to psy and esp in particular

596
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:36,640
by looking at the correlates

597
00:21:40,390 --> 00:21:38,480
the third wing is looking at

598
00:21:42,549 --> 00:21:40,400
phenomenology and this is really

599
00:21:44,710 --> 00:21:42,559
understanding what experiences are like

600
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:44,720
what is it like to have a given

601
00:21:48,149 --> 00:21:46,320
experience and then you can also gain

602
00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:48,159
clues there

603
00:21:51,190 --> 00:21:49,679
and then some studies will will do

604
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:51,200
what's called a mixed methods approach

605
00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:53,039
and this is one of my favorites

606
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:54,640
where you try to

607
00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:55,760
approach

608
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:56,720
um

609
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:58,960
esp from multiple perspectives within

610
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:00,799
the same study so i've done this with

611
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:03,200
synesthesia for example um where i was

612
00:22:08,549 --> 00:22:05,280
looking to see whether synesthetes did

613
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:08,559
better at esp compared to controls

614
00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:12,720
um i also asked the people to describe

615
00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:14,000
what their experiences were like in

616
00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:15,919
their lives and really sort of try and

617
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:17,440
get a sense for

618
00:22:22,149 --> 00:22:19,360
um you know the relationship perhaps

619
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:22,159
between synesthesia and extrasensory

620
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:29,270
all right so um you can get these cards

621
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:31,360
from the rhine i believe i have some

622
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:32,720
somewhere i think i've got several sets

623
00:22:38,390 --> 00:22:34,960
somewhere um but this is a nice picture

624
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:38,400
of the zenith cards and this is the

625
00:22:43,549 --> 00:22:40,960
way that research was done into esp in

626
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:43,559
the early era in the rhine era in the

627
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:45,360
1930s

628
00:22:49,430 --> 00:22:48,000
and up to the 60s um and this can still

629
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:49,440
be done today i've done research with

630
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:52,240
force choice myself

631
00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:54,640
so we did some work at liverpool hope

632
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:57,039
when i was there and we had um

633
00:23:01,669 --> 00:22:59,679
some fruit we used fruit instead of

634
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:01,679
these symbols you had five fruits and we

635
00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:02,880
actually got people to come into the

636
00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:04,880
room and interact with the food and

637
00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:07,200
smell the fruit to try and prime them

638
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:09,440
and then each person had their own

639
00:23:13,990 --> 00:23:11,600
randomized um

640
00:23:16,149 --> 00:23:14,000
sheet that was then hidden between two

641
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:16,159
blank sheets and in an envelope and they

642
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:18,320
had to try and determine the order of

643
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:21,360
the cards that was randomly determined

644
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:23,120
so that was fun and i was trying to sort

645
00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:24,320
of really increase the meaning because

646
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:25,840
these can be a bit boring if you're

647
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:27,280
trying to sort of guess

648
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:30,320
a sequence of cards um so what's more

649
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:33,280
interesting is the free response type of

650
00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:34,400
study

651
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:37,600
um and so um this is an example i've

652
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:38,960
used in the class so it's technically

653
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:40,960
not precognition technically it's

654
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:42,960
actually retrocognition or

655
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:44,240
telepathy because you might be reading

656
00:23:49,350 --> 00:23:46,559
my mind because i know what the target

657
00:23:51,669 --> 00:23:49,360
is but it's a precognition example for

658
00:23:54,630 --> 00:23:51,679
you and so this is what is used in the

659
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:54,640
gansfeld which is the classic

660
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:56,480
paradigm for extra sensory perception

661
00:24:01,029 --> 00:23:59,039
research that analisa described um to

662
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:01,039
you earlier today

663
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:03,200
um so in the ganzfeld you'd be in a mild

664
00:24:06,149 --> 00:24:05,120
state of consciousness and you would be

665
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:06,159
trying to

666
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:07,279
um

667
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:09,440
describe your experiences

668
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:11,760
as a sender is focusing on a particular

669
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:13,919
target that would be a real-time

670
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:15,760
experiment

671
00:24:19,669 --> 00:24:18,720
a precognition version of that you might

672
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:19,679
um

673
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:22,559
not find out you might not have a sender

674
00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:24,640
and you might just have the target that

675
00:24:28,549 --> 00:24:26,799
is revealed in the future and that's

676
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:28,559
what we're going to do here so you would

677
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:30,799
like close your eyes and you would

678
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:33,039
write down your impressions and then

679
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:34,159
after you've written down your

680
00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:37,120
impressions and i've shown this for

681
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:39,200
these four possibilities

682
00:24:43,990 --> 00:24:42,000
you would be looking to see which target

683
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:44,000
which potential target related the most

684
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:47,679
to your imagery and then um it would be

685
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:49,600
designated a hit

686
00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:52,480
if you had um

687
00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:54,960
more overlap with the target that

688
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:55,919
actually

689
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:58,400
was picked or is picked in the future

690
00:25:01,990 --> 00:25:00,240
if that makes sense so there's there's

691
00:25:03,430 --> 00:25:02,000
different ways of setting up esp

692
00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:03,440
experiments depending on whether you're

693
00:25:08,390 --> 00:25:05,919
interested in general esp or in in

694
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:08,400
telepathy designs or in precognition um

695
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:09,840
but generally it's really difficult to

696
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:12,159
rule out the different types of esp so

697
00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:13,919
most studies will say well it's this

698
00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:15,440
kind of design

699
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:17,120
but we can still see whether people are

700
00:25:20,549 --> 00:25:18,240
able to

701
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:20,559
pick up on a target

702
00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:22,159
differently from chance and we can also

703
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:23,520
look at the

704
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:24,960
process-oriented approach here and

705
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:28,000
really see which factors correlate best

706
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:31,039
with success under these conditions

707
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:32,159
so

708
00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:34,480
take a few minutes and think about which

709
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:35,520
of these

710
00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:36,400
um

711
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:38,000
might be the target

712
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:41,360
and i will reveal it in a second

713
00:25:44,149 --> 00:25:42,720
maybe you want to write it down just to

714
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:44,159
make sure that um

715
00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:47,520
you're um we're controlling things

716
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:49,200
okay

717
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:51,200
so if i was doing this i would then

718
00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:52,559
select the target

719
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:54,400
using a random process there are some

720
00:25:58,149 --> 00:25:56,159
programs out there that will do that you

721
00:26:00,710 --> 00:25:58,159
can also use research randomizer which

722
00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:00,720
is quite handy and it's free i like free

723
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:02,640
for research

724
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:04,159
and the target was

725
00:26:07,830 --> 00:26:06,400
this beautiful cardinal

726
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:07,840
which is very apt because these are

727
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:09,520
everywhere in georgia and i think

728
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:10,880
they're beautiful

729
00:26:14,149 --> 00:26:12,480
so that kind of design is something that

730
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:14,159
we're going to be taking up actually in

731
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:17,360
our lab at uwg and we're going to be

732
00:26:21,510 --> 00:26:18,720
looking at

733
00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:21,520
esp using a precognition design in the

734
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:23,120
context of a float tank so we've been

735
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:25,360
talking a lot with cal cooper who's done

736
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:26,960
some research on

737
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:29,440
espn floating at northampton and so

738
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:31,039
we're going to be doing something like

739
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:31,919
that but ours is going to be a

740
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:33,440
precognition

741
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:35,760
something like we just did

742
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:37,600
so yeah i'm excited about that we had a

743
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:40,400
really short really small donation that

744
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:42,320
we're using to pay for float sessions

745
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:44,640
and uh we're hoping to run that when we

746
00:26:49,110 --> 00:26:46,400
get back up and running in august and

747
00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:51,430
so what do we know about esp

748
00:26:55,669 --> 00:26:54,080
um we actually do know quite a lot and

749
00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:55,679
how am i doing for time by the way am i

750
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,840
am i okay

751
00:27:01,269 --> 00:26:59,520
hopefully i am

752
00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:01,279
hopefully if i'm talking too much

753
00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:03,520
you're do you're about 25 minutes in

754
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:04,480
okay

755
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:06,880
yep so i'm coming coming close to the

756
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:07,760
end

757
00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:08,720
um

758
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:10,880
yeah so what do we know about esp well

759
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:12,240
this is a selection because actually

760
00:27:15,909 --> 00:27:14,559
this is extensive research and um it

761
00:27:19,830 --> 00:27:15,919
goes back to

762
00:27:22,389 --> 00:27:19,840
jb ryan's work like i said in the 30s

763
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:22,399
and there are journals dedicated to

764
00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:24,000
parapsychological research and more

765
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:26,080
recent journals that are emerging um

766
00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:27,600
that are open to

767
00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:30,399
parapsychological research so i think um

768
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:31,600
there's a lot out there even though

769
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:32,960
people don't always know that there's a

770
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:34,640
lot out there because

771
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:36,720
not every university has access to the

772
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:38,880
journal of parapsychology for example

773
00:27:45,669 --> 00:27:42,640
but anyway here's my very short summary

774
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:45,679
um esp seems to be better associated

775
00:27:49,269 --> 00:27:47,440
with altered states of consciousness so

776
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:49,279
this definitely overlaps with what we

777
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:51,760
saw in terms of people's

778
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:53,760
subjective experiences so

779
00:27:58,549 --> 00:27:57,520
dreams are conducive to esp performance

780
00:28:01,110 --> 00:27:58,559
in the lab

781
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:01,120
um hypnogic like states are

782
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:03,440
conducive to esp in the lab so we see

783
00:28:06,389 --> 00:28:04,320
this

784
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:06,399
in the ganzfeld research again there's

785
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:09,120
been some other research on hypnosis

786
00:28:15,669 --> 00:28:12,320
um and hypnosis seems to be conducive to

787
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:15,679
better performance at esp and this is um

788
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:17,679
with even with card guessing which seems

789
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:20,559
a little bit more boring um it seems to

790
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:22,159
do something

791
00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:24,399
a classic finding in parapsychology is

792
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:28,000
that believers in espe do better at esp

793
00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:30,080
tasks and actually as well we've also

794
00:28:34,870 --> 00:28:33,039
got the parapsychology parapsychological

795
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:34,880
experiment effect where

796
00:28:40,549 --> 00:28:37,919
um you've got some experimenters that

797
00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:40,559
are more open to or

798
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:42,240
really believing inside themselves and

799
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:43,679
they tend to get better results too

800
00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:45,360
which i think is actually very

801
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:47,360
intriguing and tells us something about

802
00:28:51,750 --> 00:28:50,159
the phenomenon itself

803
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:51,760
this is my pet topic as well some

804
00:28:54,789 --> 00:28:53,440
personality types can guess targets

805
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:54,799
better than chance i've only got a few

806
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:57,600
up here um but there are others so

807
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:59,919
creativity i've got that one because um

808
00:29:03,269 --> 00:29:01,200
that is something that has been

809
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,279
consistently found in the gansfeld for

810
00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:05,760
example openness to experience

811
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:09,200
um extraversion and we've also got

812
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:12,640
dissociation and and some mixed findings

813
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:14,640
actually with transliminality which is

814
00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:16,720
one of the measures i was talking about

815
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:18,559
earlier but more research needs to be

816
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:21,440
done and what seems to be um

817
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:23,360
the case is that there might be

818
00:29:28,630 --> 00:29:26,399
interactions between um people's

819
00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:28,640
personality and the state in terms of

820
00:29:33,269 --> 00:29:30,880
esp as well as for subjective

821
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:33,279
experiences which i find fascinating um

822
00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:35,520
so in particular with the hypnosis study

823
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:37,200
i was referring to earlier which was i

824
00:29:42,230 --> 00:29:40,480
think um tresoldi and colleagues they

825
00:29:44,470 --> 00:29:42,240
found um

826
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:44,480
an interaction between transliminality

827
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:46,559
and hypnosis for esp in their study so

828
00:29:50,950 --> 00:29:48,960
we've got to get a bit more intricate in

829
00:29:52,789 --> 00:29:50,960
how we're looking at how things work

830
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:52,799
together i think

831
00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:54,720
because esp seems to be actually

832
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:56,799
something like a recipe

833
00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:59,360
esp works better with targets that are

834
00:30:03,269 --> 00:30:02,159
emotionally evocative or changing a lot

835
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:03,279
um

836
00:30:06,870 --> 00:30:05,200
and uh the remote viewing work and i

837
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:06,880
know there's a talk later

838
00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:08,960
by paul smith about that

839
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:09,679
but

840
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:12,480
research by ed may has found that

841
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:15,760
targets that have a lot of entropy seem

842
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:17,600
to be really really good in that set of

843
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:20,320
studies so for example an explosion so

844
00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:22,399
it's about change um things that are

845
00:30:25,110 --> 00:30:23,600
important

846
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:25,120
that seem to work really really well for

847
00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:26,880
esp

848
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:31,600
information um seems to register in the

849
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:34,720
system so in the biological system and

850
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:37,279
be better evaluated implicitly so that

851
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:38,960
means unconsciously

852
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:41,760
um and this includes like in how we feel

853
00:30:47,430 --> 00:30:44,480
in our mood in our behavior and how we

854
00:30:49,909 --> 00:30:47,440
um move our bodies but also in terms of

855
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:49,919
biological correlates so in terms of the

856
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,360
um

857
00:30:55,830 --> 00:30:53,360
you know the activity of the nervous

858
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:55,840
system and um and the brains there's

859
00:30:59,509 --> 00:30:57,840
lots of studies that that do find that

860
00:31:01,830 --> 00:30:59,519
and there's a really nice review in the

861
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:01,840
most recent handbook of parasitology

862
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:03,600
that i know that analisa

863
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:05,440
referred you to earlier

864
00:31:11,509 --> 00:31:08,159
so i find that fascinating so that psy

865
00:31:14,470 --> 00:31:11,519
might be there but is not always noticed

866
00:31:17,110 --> 00:31:14,480
and then conscious sigh is probably a

867
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:17,120
bit rarer and that occurs when

868
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:20,559
information um takes a more strong and

869
00:31:23,509 --> 00:31:22,000
accessible form so people who are good

870
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:23,519
at imaging make sense then the people

871
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:24,960
who are really good at imaging like

872
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:27,039
creative people and synthetics might

873
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:29,120
have more esp experiences

874
00:31:32,630 --> 00:31:29,919
um

875
00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:32,640
so i think that is fascinating

876
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:34,080
and actually with my research i didn't

877
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,799
find that synthetics did better esp

878
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:38,640
than controls but then when i looked

879
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:42,720
into what was going on um the cylinders

880
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:43,760
there were two different types of

881
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:45,679
synthesis so some stimulates have the

882
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:47,600
additional way of experiencing in their

883
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:50,000
mind's eye and some out in space now the

884
00:31:54,389 --> 00:31:52,080
ones that had um the extra way of

885
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:54,399
experiencing the world the extra color

886
00:31:59,029 --> 00:31:56,399
in the mind's eye they did they did well

887
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:59,039
at the esp task so um something

888
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:01,200
intriguing going on there

889
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:04,240
and then um some research that is is

890
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:06,480
quite old but we just got published um

891
00:32:11,029 --> 00:32:08,880
in the journal of parasycology um we did

892
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:11,039
find evidence that esp

893
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:14,080
seems to be filtered out of attention

894
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:16,559
and people who are more liminal

895
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:17,840
you know you can see more evidence of

896
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:20,799
that going on um so again something like

897
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:22,960
transiminality seems to be related to

898
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,399
being able to filter sigh of attention

899
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,559
so i had a couple more slides just

900
00:32:33,029 --> 00:32:31,120
really to say i think that it's a recipe

901
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:33,039
um you saw a lot of factors on that

902
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:36,720
previous slide um and you know you

903
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:39,039
life isn't just one thing you've got to

904
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:40,080
think about how things are working

905
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:42,159
together so it's a system i really think

906
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:43,039
it's

907
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:45,840
psy esp works as a system

908
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:48,159
um it's relational there's more than one

909
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:51,120
person involved um

910
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:51,840
there

911
00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:53,760
people are some people are more prone to

912
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:56,480
having these experiences than others

913
00:33:00,630 --> 00:32:58,480
some people are more likely to perhaps

914
00:33:01,509 --> 00:33:00,640
access the states

915
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:01,519
um

916
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:03,919
in experiments than others

917
00:33:08,149 --> 00:33:05,679
and then other people might have these

918
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:08,159
experiences more rarely

919
00:33:12,389 --> 00:33:10,080
under certain circumstances so we talked

920
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:12,399
about liminal states and where people

921
00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:13,200
might

922
00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:15,440
for a moment be more interconnected and

923
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:17,440
in a psy conducive state so it's a

924
00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:19,120
recipe

925
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:21,200
and we've also got to think about

926
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:23,440
um the other people that are involved so

927
00:33:27,990 --> 00:33:25,919
um it's a recipe it's not just one

928
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:28,000
person it's distributed perhaps within

929
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:30,000
um connected people's it's a connected

930
00:33:32,070 --> 00:33:31,279
system

931
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:32,080
um

932
00:33:36,630 --> 00:33:34,720
so yeah i think this is all i have to

933
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:36,640
say it's probably a lot to say in a very

934
00:33:42,149 --> 00:33:38,799
short period of time but i think

935
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:42,159
psychology does have an awful lot to say

936
00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:44,480
to paris psychology and

937
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:45,760
i hope that you've enjoyed my

938
00:34:00,630 --> 00:33:58,870
okay so um

939
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:00,640
sadly christine is not going to be able

940
00:34:04,789 --> 00:34:02,880
to join us for the q a but she did

941
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:04,799
prepare something very interesting for

942
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:06,880
us so that we can enjoy a little bit

943
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:09,119
more interaction and just give me a

944
00:34:16,069 --> 00:34:12,480
moment to pull up a slide

945
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:16,079
we call this reverse q a

946
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:25,589
just a moment here

947
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:27,990
hopefully this will work

948
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:30,800
okay so she's given us some prompts

949
00:34:36,069 --> 00:34:33,440
um that we can discuss among ourselves

950
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:36,079
and um there are four discussion tables

951
00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:38,159
um that are have been set up

952
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:40,240
and i encourage you to choose a question

953
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:41,760
that appeals to you

954
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:43,599
uh and then join the table with other

955
00:34:46,629 --> 00:34:44,720
attendees that are interested in the

956
00:34:47,669 --> 00:34:46,639
same question and i hope that you have a

957
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:47,679
really

958
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:50,879
question is what might be the best ways

959
00:34:56,069 --> 00:34:53,760
to healthily increase esp experiences

960
00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:56,079
and encourage better performance on esp

961
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:58,000
experiments if that's your topic you

962
00:35:01,270 --> 00:34:59,040
want to go to the table called

963
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:01,280
increasing esp

964
00:35:05,829 --> 00:35:03,760
next question could meditation or other

965
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:05,839
ways to increase metacognition help us

966
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:07,920
become more focused on information that

967
00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:09,520
we are usually filtering out of our

968
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:11,839
attention uh if that's your question

969
00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:13,599
please go to the table of meditation and

970
00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:15,040
esp

971
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:17,359
if we are usually filtering out

972
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:19,760
filtering psi out of our attention do

973
00:35:23,510 --> 00:35:21,200
you notice more information in your

974
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:23,520
intentional attentional window at

975
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,680
certain points in the day and night is

976
00:35:29,030 --> 00:35:27,280
there an optimal time during the day and

977
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:29,040
night where you can become consciously

978
00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:31,520
aware of fleeting information and images

979
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:33,760
and that will be the table time of day

980
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:35,119
and esp

981
00:35:39,310 --> 00:35:37,760
and finally the last question if psy

982
00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:39,320
works like a

983
00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:41,680
psychobiosocial system how might we

984
00:35:45,030 --> 00:35:43,440
loosen the boundaries within it are

985
00:35:47,349 --> 00:35:45,040
there ways to become more socially

986
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:47,359
intertwined or connected perhaps

987
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:49,599
and if that is topic that interests you

988
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:52,560
go to the social connectedness and esp

989
00:35:57,030 --> 00:35:54,560
table um in general in the social lounge

990
00:35:59,109 --> 00:35:57,040
we do encourage table hopping

991
00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:59,119
so you know feel free to hop around to

992
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:01,760
various conversations whether it be

993
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:03,599
these four here or conversations that

994
00:36:07,589 --> 00:36:04,960
are already in

995
00:36:11,990 --> 00:36:07,599
uh in the works from earlier today

996
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:12,000
um we will have a social lounge break uh

997
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:13,200
until

998
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:15,839
i believe 12 50. our next talk is going

999
00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:19,680
to be uh mark burkucci on mediumship so

1000
00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:21,760
uh regardless if you feel like joining

1001
00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:24,160
the social lounge do stick around and